Ep 36: If you’re in your 50s you need to be lifting weights

Michael Dermansky

Hi everyone and welcome to the show that helps you become more confident in your body so you can keep doing things that you love. My name is Michael Dermansky, I’m senior physiotherapist at MD Health and I’ve got a special guest with me today, he has been on the show before, David Smith of Absolute Health and Performance, welcome to the show again.

David Smith

Thanks for having me again Michael, it’s gone quick, must have been nearly 18 months but it’s good to be back.

Michael Dermansky

Yeah, well, it’s great having these conversations with you as well because you’re in the fitness industry, you’ve been in this space for quite a long time as well and you’re very passionate about what you do and it’s always great to hear your insights, particularly what we’re talking about today, which is why strength and fitness training is so important over 50. So let’s go back to what a typical client that works you with looks like. So tell us about a typical client that works with someone like you.

David Smith

 Yeah, the majority, it’s a very steep, pointy bell curve, is 40 to 60 year olds. We busy professionals, family life. They tend to be at a point where they sacrifice a lot of their own personal health and time for careers and family. just that they’re now starting to realize it’s time to change the tides. Whether it be they’re noticing more aches and pains, their body is changing and energy is dropping. Maybe it’s like a, I guess I might describe it in a way I’ve heard the language is there’s almost a sense of mourning for a body that they once had. They’re driven people and they’re all in their professional worlds but they’re certainly not gym people and they come to us not to be better in the gym but to, you know, we describe the term to live a limitless life, you know, to be able to play tennis with friends, to be more confident in their body when they go to a board meeting, to improve mental clarity, manage stress and we just believe, I think the evidence helps support me, barbells and dumbbells are just the most effective tool to do this.

Michael Dermansky

that you say what your typical client looks like, and for us it’s exactly the same. So most of our clients, as you said, pointy end is that 45, 50 plus who don’t want to have the best gym body, but what they want to do is have the best life they possibly have. Which is realistically how we workshopped the name of this show, The Confident Body Show, because what our clients wanted to be have confidence in their body. they’d lost that or they realized they can’t just do go to the gym and just do the typical stuff or smash themselves in the class that wasn’t achieving their goal of a confident body it needs to be a little more precise than that. So from your perspective what’s the most important aspect of training if you want to work on your strength and fitness in 50 plus?

David Smith

Yep, definitely. I think to sort of frame what people should be doing, it’s probably started to think about what they’re losing. And it’s kind of the decade where it’s their last chance really to make some incremental improvements and really improve the basis of strength, fitness, health, whatever that might be. And whatever that means to individual before we’re just fighting decline from then on out realistically. For women in particular, there’s drastic hormonal shifts through perimenopause and menopause. And this Along with men as well, testosterone can dramatically impact our ability to protect our lean muscle, our skeletal tissue, your bones, your health and ultimately fight sarcopenia or muscle loss. And that plays a big role in us developing chronic disease. Whether it reduced insulin sensitivity leading to metabolic disorders like diabetes, reduced physical capacity and particularly our power, balance and strength. And that then leads to decline in our ability to stay engaged with all the fun physical stuff, know, keeping up with our family, peers, friends, children, grandchildren. If you think about what we’re then losing, it’s for those reasons in particular, the most important aspects of training, I think across the lifetime, but particularly in the fifties, it’s more highlighted, is going to be able to be athletic, we want to be able to maintain our power, our strength and our lean tissue. So everyone should be jumping, bounding, training to be explosive. know, training to build top end maximal strength capacity. Now, I’m not saying this is where people start and it takes time to develop the base skills and to be training in such a way, but it’s absolutely critical for anyone in their 50s and beyond to be pursuing that. Unfortunately, it’s the age where you’re often sold on, you know, slowing down, gentle on your body, Pilates, yoga, swimming, walks, when it’s exactly the opposite of what this demographic needs to be doing. I’m not saying don’t do those things, especially if you enjoy them because there’s lots of other benefits. But I guess the question is what do they need or what is the most important aspects of 50 plus? Then it’s got to be high quality strength training. Be powerful, be explosive and learn how to sprint.

Michael Dermansky

I couldn’t agree with you more. you know, high quality strength training is probably the base of what we do here as well. And that’s where we see real changes in people’s lives in terms of what they can do and what they can achieve in their life as well. As you said, you know, this is the last decade, the chance of having the best chance of improving your lean muscle mass and the low to the skeletal issues, because there will be a degree of a decline after that too. It won’t be absolute. It really depends on what you do, but there

David Smith Thanks.

Michael Dermansky

is a natural decline after that age as well and so the more muscle mass, the more skeletal mass we can have, the better the long-term future is.

David Smith

Yeah, the same way, you know, for females needing to build their peak bone mass before the ages of 30. I think then across the board, we all need to think about building our peak muscle mass and strength capacity before the ages of 50. then through that decade being critical to, you know, give us whatever possible we have to then have a higher base to start that natural physiological decline from.

Michael Dermansky

And the biggest restriction we see with people who can and can’t do their lives is their lack of strength. It’s just so often, I want to be fitter. That’s great. But your biggest problem is not the fact you’re not fit enough. You’re not strong enough. And what you can’t do compared to what you want to do is so much so often due to the lack of, know, plus your muscle strength as well, the glutes, the hamstrings, the quads, shoulder blades, stabiliser muscles, all the things that keep them up straight. straight, allows them to lift, push, pull, all those physical activities that we normally take for granted, they’re not good enough. And you can change that. It’s not fixed in stone. This is not the person that you are. This is something you can change and have a much better outcome in long term.

David Smith

Yeah, I think it’s definitely an age where people start to think it’s too little too late. Why try? But certainly right up to the day you’re six foot under, you can make some positive change for your strength, power and therefore the quality of life you lead.

Michael Dermansky

The only interesting thing I found with the population over 50 as well is around the 45 to 50 age bracket is where there’s something that kicks in that’s a little bit different where, you know, you would have tried something like the lettuce fat in your 30s or 20s and in 40s and 50s you think, you know what, I’m going to talk to a professional about this and I’m going to do something that’s going to be a more structured and a bit more targeted. And I’m going to, I’m not going to try to the outcome today, yesterday, in a day. I’m going to do some consistency. I actually find the ones that are most consistent are in this age bracket. And they tend to be a lot stronger and a lot more capable than a lot of clients we see in their 20s who want the quick fix, the short term stuff, and don’t actually put the consistent work in.

David Smith

I think patience develops with time.

Michael Dermansky

 It does. Absolutely. So I mean, we talked about it bit, but I guess what are the life benefits you see if seeing people in their 50s and above who has started their fitness journey? And I guess what are their goals when they first start and how do those goals change as they develop strength, power, and ability?

David Smith

Well, we’re lucky we get to see you know incredible results in the gym side of things whether it be lift numbers or the positive changes in the body and so on but I think for this demographic the main benefits we see first and foremost is the reduction in aches and pains and If we’re feeling better in our body feeling both physically and and psychologically there’s increased confidence to say yes to opportunities in life and this flows beyond us the physical domain like you know taking the ski trip or that first big hike or joining your work social basketball team or whatever, but I think it also, you’ll see them regain confidence in their personal professional life as well. We love to see the amazing feats of people doing stuff in the gym and it certainly looks good on Instagram, but the true benefits lie when you see that, confidence and reductions in pain and aches and soreness that they thought they were stuck with and this is just what the body they had left with. And many will come to us with relatively high level non-specific goals, it be weight loss or reduced back pain and so on. Right from the start, I think it’s really important to deep dive and find out true why, true understanding of why these things matter. We tend to get responses like being role models for children to make the most of life now and set themselves up for retirement, to regain confidence in their bodies and the goals that come later. once these things are already happening, that’s when people start to get more specific, whether it be they want to learn how to Olympic lift or they want to try their first half marathon or double bodyweight deadlift or their first set of chin ups. I think the more specific and physical stuff actually comes later and we try to get to the more, the deeper why right from the start.

Michael Dermansky

Yeah, it’s interesting you say that too, because I mean, we see exactly the same picture. People come in and have this generalized loss. I just want to be a bit stronger. I want a bit more better posture. I want to have less back pain as well. And then they don’t even imagine how their lives can be different by these small amounts of really consistent strength training and power training as well. And then six months later, I’m conversation, I’ve signed up for the Camino Trail. We’re going in six months. Like, great. Like, I didn’t have that conversation you six months ago and that’s wonderful that you’re

David Smith That seems to be a big one. I’ve had four people this year, or last year, that, just specifically as their targets as well.

Michael Dermansky

There we go. So yeah, I mean, that’s the conversation we have six months later, where, you know, this is the effect of people’s lives where they think their life is this box. I just want to be a little bit more postured, a little bit more muscle tone, a little bit less back pain. But I’ve already reduced my life to this. And then six months later, no, my life is here. And that’s the real benefit of strength and and power training is that it stops your life being here and it starts your life being here at any age. And it’s just wonderful to see that the potential people have in their life and their body more than what they’re close to their imaginations at the start.

David Smith

Thank you. Yeah, think if you’re into it with all, when you’re just feeling like you’re wanting to not feel as bad or reduce the makes and pains, it is a bit hard to see what the possibilities could be. So it’s really nice to see the goals and targets evolve in time.

Michael Dermansky

What’s the biggest shift that you’ve seen recently of your memory as well where someone’s coming with problem idea X and they’ve and what they’ve ended up doing is quite different to one mind.

David Smith

I think the largest shift we’ve actually seen probably over the last two years is particularly in this age demographic in women and the understanding of the importance of wanting to get strong. Like the reason they lift loads is no longer about toning and external or visual side of things, but they really truly are starting to see the shift and understanding of what what power and true top end strength means and what it gives them to in life. I think those are the biggest shifts that I’ve seen, particularly in the industry. And I think there’s a lot of great people out there like us as well that are trying to promote that message. And it’s certainly starting to work. That’s the biggest shifts of changes we’ve seen on a global scale. With regards to individuals, yeah, it’s the person that never thought they would ever be at that spend a day without back pain doing double body weight deadlifts. It’s the person that came in with knee injuries and was told you should never run because you got quote quote bone on bone and that kind of terrible narratives that people tell running their first half mouth on pain free. So these sorts of things are possible with the right guidance and taking the time to load effectively and ultimately give the person confidence to return to these things.

Michael Dermansky

 And so I guess that leads to my next question. Why does someone seek someone help from someone like yourself or even myself instead of doing it for themselves in gym? Like they can go to gym and lift and do stuff, all the equipment’s there. Why do they need your help?

David Smith

You touched on it earlier, they do what they used to do. And it doesn’t work for many of the reasons, whether it be those hormonal changes, the different lifestyle pressures and stresses and, the changing body that they now exist. They, they do long steady cardio to try to lose weight. They do poorly structured gym training or go into fitness classes, which is, which is tailored to no one. But life is busy. People are more time poor. They have so many other demands on their life. they need accountability. They need support, need education, and ultimately they need smarter programming strategies. If you want to be able to move the dial, when you’re not 20 years old with surging hormones and the world’s all on your side, you can make progress banging your head against the wall, but it doesn’t work like that anymore. So we teach and create autonomy for all of our clients, of course. That’s critical for long-term health. We don’t want to be hand-holding people, but there’s just no beating working with experts to achieve your best outcomes. You’d see a doctor if you get sick you go to your accountant to do your taxes Use a lawyer for your legal advice But for some reason people don’t apply those same principles to their health and fitness and we think about it realistically It underpins everything else we have in life

Michael Dermansky

Yeah, I mean, it’s our job. We see a little small tweak. It’s amazing. In the exercises… magical, they’re just exercises like anything else. But it’s knowing when to do a particular exercise, knowing a foot position, a slight change in posture, knowing when, where is your limit, how far should I be pushing you, should I push you this far or this far? And knowing that I’m comfortable to take you somewhere on those margins is where the changes are gonna occur. So those small tweaks in a program that seem subtle, but the biggest difference between a great program, you get really good outcomes. just doing a bunch of exercises that don’t seem to go too far.

David Smith

Yes, the dose is the poison, not the exercise themselves.

Michael Dermansky

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, it’s our job to keep you at your limit. Like, you know, we need to, our job is to make sure that you’re working at your threshold. So it’s not too high where you’re gonna hurt yourself. It’s not too low that you’re gonna get change. That knowing the right spot and just pushing the pressure at the right at times is the reason why we see change. And that’s what, you know, health experts like ourselves do. We wanna see change. We wanna see change in people as well. And knowing when, push and pull back that’s the difference.

David Smith

Yep, absolutely agree.

Michael Dermansky

What needs to be done if there’s something goes wrong in the fitness program, or the client just isn’t progressing. So what, know, they’ve hurt themselves or just they’re not getting outcomes. What do you do? How do you change that in the program if you see it?

David Smith

I guess wrong or it’s hard one to define but I think that if they’re not making the right progress or injuries are popping up more frequently than you’d expect then you know first off regular testing needs to be happening so if you’re not testing and you’re not able to catch the lack of progress early enough to make change you too often people Going to their training whether it be strength or cardio base and they just do the same thing Year in year out and you see it in gyms as well you and expect the different outcomes isn’t that’s the definition of madness I think You know with regular testing whether it be force platform data or movement assessments have whatever you tend to focus on or appropriate to your skill sets You know early identification is the first step and then you sort of problem solve with the individual. It’s is it too much or too little load or volume or frequency. Something that’s particularly key for the population we’re talking about is poor recovery strategies. How are they managing their sleep and their stress? And if we’re able to then fully identify the barriers to progress, then it’s about smart training and recovery processes need to be put in place. It’s how long is a piece of string? It’s some time. So you need to be continually monitoring and then adapting based on the individual’s responses. And again, I think this sort of highlights again why you’d see professional in this space is that you need to have really clearly defined training structures and programs. If you don’t have clearly defined structures with what the individual’s doing, you can’t identify where the potential errors lie to progress as there are too many confounding factors. you’ve got no idea what to change.

Michael Dermansky

Yeah and I guess talking about two things you said, you said regular testing as well. How often do you test with your clients as well?

David Smith

 A minimum of every 12 weeks all of our members will go through force platform data testing, movement screening to get a really understanding and full metabolic testing and things like that to make sure we have a really good understanding first and foremost to showcase that hey, you’re doing all the right things and here’s the results and we’re not just guessing that you’re making progress, we really are. But then it also helps us to inform what the next training strategies look like based on whether they need more power output, more top end strength, lower body, left, right imbalances and things like that. I think every 12 weeks is plenty and probably if you do much earlier than that, maybe not enough time to see the change but you leave it for much longer than that and you probably start to miss things. So yeah, about 12 weeks is probably a good happy medium.

Michael Dermansky

Yeah, fantastic as well. Why have you chosen to for Wix? What was your rationale behind that?

David Smith

First and foremost, there’s some practical things that actually runs pretty well with school terms and things like that that these people tend to cycle with. And so if you’re looking at testing someone either around a holiday period or just after a holiday period, are you really getting accurate data? It tends to flow into anywhere between two or three specific training blocks, which allows someone to adapt to the stimulus and progress as opposed to maybe just carrying residual fatigue from the previous training block. But then it’s not too long that you’re kind of missing the point where maybe you needed to deviate things a particular direction at that point and you’ve started to go a little bit too far the wrong direction in some of the training strategies.

Michael Dermansky

Yeah, fair enough. mean, the numbers are perfectly spot on. I mean, they match normal soft tissue changes. You expect strength changes over three months. So the first six weeks of any program is neurological. You get adaptation to the nerve activation. The nerves grow into the area, they become more efficient. And then you get muscle changes as well. So it’s not a big surprise that you’re doing that every 12 to 13 weeks, because that’s how long it takes to see change. That’s what’s happening at the surface. So if you want to get real long-term change, it’s three months. you And so, and after that, we want to adapt again to tell you not having just there’s no change in stimulus. There’s no change of degree. We want to adapt as well. So those timeframes are as spot on as it gets to see real changes in the long term. And yeah, as you said, it should be every three months because if it not, we, we, we, varies between three and six months, depending on how long people are being here. So if they’ve been here for five years, there’s no point testing it with three months. It’s not going to change that much, but every six months we’re to at do that too. We have clients resisting that assessment, they keep pushing and pushing and pushing it. And they wonder, well, I’m not getting any better now. Well, because you’re not, we haven’t seen an assessment for two months. And what I’m seeing now is not what you’re like now, it’s what you’re like 20 months ago. That’s a long time ago, you’ve changed. I need a seatbelt, I want to see what you’re like now. So it be an even more pinpoint when you programme for the next three to six months from here.

David Smith

We found people have actually become quite competitive about it as well. So they actually enjoy it. People are asking when’s the next testing coming up. So there’s been a bit of a shift as well with that.

Michael Dermansky

Right, we still have to drag people to this. They think, but I wanted to work out today. No, no, no, we’re testing you so we can make it an even better program later as well.

David Smith

Yeah. Yeah, I think it’s just about the messaging on why you’re doing it and what’s important, the information that it gives you and how it helps inform their training. And as long as you’re doing that correctly, then yeah, it starts to become an easier sell for sure.

Michael Dermansky

Yeah, absolutely. So finally, can you just give a brief, I know this is a how long is the piece of string, but a good basic structure program for someone not a perfect, a good structure program. What does that roughly look like? So someone has in their head, what’s a good strength or fitness program for someone in their 50s?

David Smith

Yeah, okay. think overall you need to be focused on what we term polarized training. So avoiding all this middle range circuity kind of stuff because it’s not creating enough mechanical stimulus to create the changes in the musculoskeletal system without the hormones helping. And it’s not quite easy enough to help with the meditative rest side of things. So you need to go long and slow and easy and meditative. You need to sprint fast, you need to lift heavy, you need to jump explosively. breaking that down into what that looks like in a week. Yeah. So two to three times a week, you should be doing sprint interval training, which is like, you know, five to 20 second maximal efforts with, know, at least four times that in the race rest ratios. And, you know, just a couple of sets. It’s all it takes. Obviously, strength training, it has to be there. If you’re thinking about this age demographic, particularly of women, we need to be considering bone health. So we need to include axial forces, so squats and deadlifts and overhead presses. When you think about hips, because these are the key areas where fractures can start to happen. So squats and lunge patterns and step ups. Piloted a few times, but it’s gotta be heavy and load matters. So 75 to 85 % of an estimated one rep max. then you spoke out this as well. The proximity to failure, proximity to fatigue is important. Know, maybe just one to four reps in reserve. So you could do a weight then by the end of that set, you feel like you’d only do two or three more reps. As I said, this mechanical stimulus is key for the bones and the muscles that essentially replaces the positive effects that estrogen testosterone used to have on your musculoskeletal system, but lighter loads, burning, burning reps, toning reps and circuit work and things like that don’t work. They have different benefits but not for your strength.

We need to use multiple sets. sort of two to four sets for all major muscle groups to help create overload. And as I said, the load matters. So we’re talking like reps that are three to eight reps or three to six reps. When you start to fit that fatigue for your bigger compound lifts, like I said, the squats, the presses, the pulls, the deadlifts. And then of course, for some accessory works like your lunges and biceps and triceps and core and things like that, know, eight plus reps are still relevant.

Of course, any rep scheme, there’s nuance to that. It’s not three to six reps for life. You’ve to periodize and adapt, and there’s skill development phases which may include higher reps. You need to be doing that for minimum two to three times a week. And the older you get, the more frequency is required because of our reduction in protein sensitivities to create change. And then progressive overload. If you always do what you’ve always done, you always get what you already have.

So you need to continue to adapt the program stimulus as the body changes, whether it be loads, volumes, different movement patterns. And then you need to You need to bounce spring and the world happens in a 3D place. So it needs to be multi-directional. Be great if you’re jumping three times a week up to like 50 contacts. So bounds or times you hit the ground essentially. Sounds like a lot, but thankfully you can do them all together.

So essentially in a single day, you go in, do some jumps and bounds, then you do your lifts, then you finish with your sprints. And then, you know, like everyone should just try to move most days of the week. Um, you know, try to accumulate 30 minutes of just some movement on all those other days, just whether it be just gradual walks, going for a swim, gentle cycles, yoga, Pilates, things like that. And then of course, this demographic, lots of work, stresses, family pressures, recovery concerted efforts and focus on sleep and recovery is critical. But that’s what we want everyone to build to. That’s the dream state, of course. But also we’ve got to remember every little bit counts. So you’ve just got to start. 

Michael Dermansky

David, that is a fantastic summary of what a great program sounds like as well. That’s really good advice so that if you’re looking at building a great fitness and strength program in your 50s or any age, that sounds like a really good structure as well. Thank you so much for your insights. It’s really good information and I hope all listeners get a lot out of this and start looking at that’s what they want their strength in. and fitness program to look like because it’s going to have huge effects on their lives and really good benefits for what they want to do with themselves at any age. Anything else you want to finish off with David before we wrap up today?

David Smith don’t let heavyweights scare you and don’t think because of what I’ve about that you need to start at a hundred plus kilos. Remember the strength and the load you lift is relative to where you’re currently at. And this is again, what’s important at least gain some guidance in the early stages to make sure the load selections appropriately. You develop the skills to do things effectively and safely first. Now exercise is really great for everyone, but there’s also, there’s an R inherit risk. So, seek professional support.

Michael Dermansky

Yeah, our job is to make your job easier so that you can get the best out of life. Thanks for your time again, David. Really great talking to you again.

David Smith

Thanks for having me again, Michael. Appreciate your time.