This week, special guest Dean Daskalou (senior osteopath and branch manager at MD Health Carlton North) joins Michael Dermansky to discuss how clinical exercise, Pilates and treatment fit together. 

Stability and control come from clinical exercise and pilates, which is very specific to the person’s injury and to their particular weaknesses. Once they feel more confident in their own ability, we can use strength and conditioning work to address their weaknesses by gradually loading up their muscles in a contained and controlled environment. Together, they are very powerful elements of regaining confidence in your body.

CLICK HERE to read the full transcript from episode 3 of The Confident Body Show

Topics discussed in this episode: 

  • The difference between group pilates and clinical exercise (0:50)
  • Why resistance-based exercise is important (2:05)
  • Benefits of using an osteopath / physiotherapist / exercise physiologist (2:40)
  • Benefits of clinical exercise and pilates for patients (5:05)
  • The difference between clinical exercise and pilates and strength training (8:30)
  • The importance of stability and control in classic strength conditioning (10:15)
  • The role of traditional osteo or physio treatment in injury recovery (12:25)
  • Do you need to be completely pain free before you can start doing clinical exercise or pilates or strength training? (22:00)

Key takeaways

  • Clinical pilates with an osteopath / physiotherapist / exercise physiologist offers a tailored approach compared to a group pilates class. You’ve got someone who’s done the training, who understands what they’re doing and why they’re giving an exercise to you. (3:00)
  • Clinical exercise and pilates uses tools and exercises that are tailored around the person and their goals, rather than trying to fit them into an exercise program. (4:00)
  • The initial assessment gives a good basis for what they need to work on; but we also need to listen to clients to work out what their desired outcomes are. It’s a collaborative approach. (5:20)
  • Doing sessions at least two times a week is really important to get the outcomes that clients want – which is all about feeling more confident in their body and being independent. (6:15)
  • Everyday tasks can be hard for some people. We help them become easy again by giving you the strength and the control to be able to do it. (7:00)
  • People can take their health for granted. And when you do get injured they tend to think, “Wow, I’ll never get back to feeling the way I was before.” (7:30)
  • We give people medical clearance to do strength and conditioning work. Once they feel better and they can feel confident in their own ability under our watchful eye, we can push them in a contained and controlled environment. (10:00)
  • Stability and control is what we get out of the clinical exercise and pilates. When you add the classic strength conditioning on top of that, the two together are very powerful elements of what we’re trying to achieve. (10:15)
  • Stability and control helps you avoid injury. Without them, you won’t get anything out of the program because you’ll always feel like you’re doing things incorrectly because your body won’t like it – and your body tells you through pain, discomfort, soreness. (12:00)
  • Patient outcomes from clinical pilates are a lot better than just using the traditional short term hands-on osteo or physio approach. (12:55)
  • Clinical pilates and hands-on manipulation work well together. You may need to do some hands on treatment to get a joint moving so that you can do the strength work better. (14:30)
  • Doing exercises fairly soon after an injury gives people confidence: I have an injury or pain but it’s safe to start doing something. Those boundaries become pushed more and more until there’s no longer a limiting factor. (15:45)
  • You can use exercise as a modality tool to reduce the person’s pain at the time. Pain doesn’t always mean I’m doing more damage. That’s where the experience comes into it too, that you know what is normal pain vs where we need to back off. (23:40)
  • We use clinical exercise and strengthening conditioning at the same time. You need certain movement patterns in order to do a proper strengthened conditioning training, but essentially part of bringing them out of their pain or discomfort is to make sure that they can do a certain movement that you would do in strength and conditioning. (25:30)

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Episode 3: Full Transcript

Michael Dermansky (00:01):

Hi, everybody. Welcome to the show that helps you become more confident in your body so you can keep doing the things that you love. Today we’ve got our special guest, we’ve got Dean Daskalou, who’s the senior osteopath and branch manager at MD Health Carlton North. And we’re going to be talking to him about clinical exercise, Pilates, and treatment, and where all of those things fit together. Hi, Dean, welcome to the show.

Dean Daskalou (00:24):

Thanks. Great to be here.

Michael Dermansky (00:26):

Great. And so today we’re going to go straight into the questions. What does clinical exercise and Pilates mean to you?

Dean Daskalou (00:34):

Look, I suppose to me specifically, it’s really important to understand the difference with one and the other. So the way I look at things as Pilates, I look at it and why we do Pilates is more from an exercise perspective. So things that you look at more like an exercise class, where you could have 10, 15 people in there in a Pilates studio. And when we’re talking Pilates, it may not be that we’re talking Pilates with reformers. They’re the machines that we use to do the exercises with. You can do Pilates, mat Pilates. So the way I look at that particular Pilates, you’re lying on the floor and you are getting instructed by a Pilates instructor and they can go through different exercises.

Dean Daskalou (01:18):

But I look at it as a non-specific way of exercise. So you’re in a group, a larger group setting where you are just following someone who’s telling you what to do from a perspective of how to do a particular exercise, whether you’re on the floor or if you’re on a reformer, which is the machine that we use for Pilates exercises, Pilates based exercises.

Michael Dermansky (01:41):

Right. So what does clinical exercises or Pilates mean? What’s the difference between what you talked about, and let’s say the clinical approach.

Dean Daskalou (01:49):

Well, from a clinical approach, we’re using the machines, the Pilates reformers, they’re all resistance based. And when I say resistance, it’s important to explain what that is. It’s using the Springs as well. So there’s different springs and they can elicit amount of pressure on the exercise that you’re doing. So you want to put less springs, it’s less resistance. You want to put more springs, it’s more resistance.

Dean Daskalou (02:11):

Going back to what you were asking regarding the clinical Pilates, it’s important to know what that means is it’s more of a tailored approach. I look at it in saying you’re using the services of an osteopath or a physiotherapist or an exercise physiologist. And we are going through the exercise that is specific and tailored to you on the actual machine, the reformer machine.

Michael Dermansky (02:34):

Right. Okay. Why does that make a difference?

Dean Daskalou (02:39):

Well, it makes a difference because you’ve got someone who’s done the training, who understands what they’re doing and why they’re giving it to you. The way I look at it is it’s not a recipe that suits everybody, in other words, if you come in and you’ve got to sore back. Well, how does that person in a Pilates studio that’s there for fitness know exactly what to do for that specific injury? And I think that’s really important because that’s what differentiates us from everybody else because you may see a Pilates class, but I tend to find that from a clinic perspective, we get people coming from those studios because they’re not specific enough. They get injured. They are left to their own devices. And I think that’s where we take that different approach, which is really important.

Michael Dermansky (03:28):

Right. I mean, from my perspective, when I look at clinical exercise and Pilates versus just a class of any kind of gym class is that you are using the tools, the machines as tools to get an outcome for somebody. So they might have a back problem, they may have a weakness around the hip, something along those lines and you are finding a way to use those exercises to get the outcome for the person rather than trying to fit them into a Pilates or an exercise program. It’s the opposite. Yeah. So you are using those things as tools to tailor around the person rather than having the person do a particular program.

Dean Daskalou (04:06):

No, that’s exactly right. And look, I actually want to ask you a question.

Michael Dermansky (04:11):


Dean Daskalou (04:11):

How long have you been doing it for?

Michael Dermansky (04:14):

Oh boy, I’ve been doing this for about, now close to I think about 20 years. It’d be close to 20 years by now.

Dean Daskalou (04:22):

So look, I’m not far off. I’m basically at 18 years as an osteopath and I’ve been doing this Pilates program, well clinical Pilates program for close to over 10 years now. So it’s a long time where we take that experience and we can actually transfer that into our exercise program.

Michael Dermansky (04:43):

Well, going off that then, what have you found the benefits are of clinical exercise and Pilates to your patients, your customers?

Dean Daskalou (04:52):

Look, it’s a great question because the way I look at it is what you do is you see people before and what they look like afterwards. And when I say look like it’s not about physically looking different. Well, that too, but it’s also how they feel. So when they first come through, after what we do, we do our assessment and it gives us a real good basis for what they need to work on. But also we do listen to them. That’s the really important part. And that’s where you said from the clinical exercise part, which is really important is we listen to them. We’re not barking orders to tell them, “Well, this is what you need to do.” It’s a collaborative approach. And I think that’s where we are, honestly, I do think we’re a lot different is that we do listen to a lot of our patients and clients, but also we listen to them to work out what their outcomes are and that’s the important part.

Dean Daskalou (05:44):

So I suppose the benefits of that are quite, look from my perspective I see it’s they come through, they’re a bit shy or sometimes reluctant because they’ve heard about Pilates and they’re not sure if it’s right for them, but I think after doing our sessions at minimum, we like to do at least two times a week which is really important to get the outcomes that we want for them and they want for themselves, but we tend to find that they just feel a lot more confident. And it’s not about confidence being able to lift huge amount of weights, it’s about lifting a grandchild out of a bassinet or putting your food away after a shopping. I’m just thinking of what I’ve done in the past.

Michael Dermansky (06:31):

Yeah, absolutely.

Dean Daskalou (06:32):

… and how it relates to me, but how it relates to other people, just being able to be independent if you live on your own. So these are the things that are the untangible things that you don’t understand from a day to day basis. But as a clinician, we see that all the time doing what we do.

Michael Dermansky (06:45):

I mean, from what I can hear is that the things that are every day life things as well, that should be easy, they can be hard for some people. What you’ve seen is that they become easy. Again, they become background noise the way they should be. You don’t think about doing something before you do it. You just go ahead and do it because you’ve got the strength and the control to be able to do that.

Dean Daskalou (07:06):

Well, people in general can take their health for granted. And when you do get injured, we get people at that injury phase and then they come to us and they, they tend to think, “Wow, I’ll never get back to feeling the way I was before or feeling like I could do exactly what I would want to do, what my neighbor would do or my partner would do.” And that’s really important because it means that you’re not left out and your life can continue on the same path, the health path that you had before.

Michael Dermansky (07:36):

Yeah. And we don’t want them to feel that way. We want them feel that they can do anything you want to do. You shouldn’t be left behind from your partner, your neighbor and so forth. If you want to be able to go for a walk, you should be able to do that without thinking about it. That should be your normal.

Dean Daskalou (07:50):

And look, sometimes you do see it when you have someone come through that is in pain and discomfort and they almost look at you think, “I will need never be able to get back to where I was before.” And when you give them the confidence, because we’ve been doing it for so long that we are going to do our utmost best to get them back there, you can see that real spark in their eye that they think, “Well, you know what, I feel like I’ve been heard,” which is really important.

Michael Dermansky (08:14):

That’s a really big one. When you feel like you’ve been heard, that’s that’s a really big deal. What’s the difference in your eyes between clinical exercise and Pilates and just strength training?

Dean Daskalou (08:24):

Look, I suppose, from clinical exercise and Pilates, as I said before, it’s very specific to the per person’s injury. Specific to their particular deficiencies, if we want to put them or their weaknesses. I like using weakness because we can strengthen things whereas … The way I look at strength and conditioning and we do do strength conditioning here as well, but generally the state of someone’s body will be relatively, I wouldn’t say pain free, but there’d be no major pathological injuries. When I say pathological injuries, and people don’t understand, any underlying major issues. So they can go and push from a muscle strength perspective. So in order to grow muscle, you need to continue to fatigue the muscle that has to repair and then the muscle will grow in the area that you’re working, whether you’re strengthening conditioning through the hips and pelvis or the upper body, neck and shoulders.

Dean Daskalou (09:22):

So purely strengthen conditioning is important, but it’s like getting, I like to say, we like to give people medical clearances to do that. Once they feel better and they can feel confident in their own ability under our tutelage, under our watchful eye, I think it’s really important that we can push them, but in a contained and controlled environment.

Michael Dermansky (09:47):

Yeah. I mean, identifying that the two, I mean, you said we do classic strength conditioning as well, but the getting a lot of the stability work is where we really get out of the clinical exercise and Pilates. So they have the control around the joints. They have the control around the shoulders. They have the control on the hips and pelvis. And then when you add the classic strength conditioning on top of that, the two together, very powerful where they’re both important elements of what you’re trying to achieve.

Michael Dermansky (10:16):

So you’ve got the control and then you’ve got the power and strength on top of that too. Yeah. And if you don’t get that control right around the hips and pelvis, around the low back around the shoulders, it just means you don’t get the most of the other exercises. And I’ve seen people where they do strength conditioning on a regular basis and they just haven’t got the control. And then you pull them back, you work on the stability and then you reintroduce that. And it’s the whole work is so much easier. The lifting is so much easier because they’ve got the control to be able to do that. That’s where I’ve seen over the years that that’s where the two combined together and work really, really well.

Dean Daskalou (10:57):

Look, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head because I’m smiling because I just thought literally I had someone who was 74 that prior to coming in and talking to you today, all we did is take a broomstick and start learning how to do the movement. So we didn’t go to the weight or we didn’t worry about being able to lift a certain weight or think about pushing too hard. It was all about the form and the movement. And the stability is so important because weight is just literally a number. It comes as you improve your form, improve your stability, improve your control.

Dean Daskalou (11:32):

If you don’t have any of that, then you’ll actually, number one, you’ll you’ll get injured. But also number two, you aren’t actually get anything out of the actual program because you’ll always feel like you’re doing things incorrectly because your body won’t like it and your body tells you by feeling in pain, discomfort, soreness.

Michael Dermansky (11:52):

I couldn’t agree more. I find exactly the same thing. What does traditional osteo treatment, for you osteo, for me physio, same thing, very, very similar, how does that come into the picture?

Dean Daskalou (12:04):

Well, look, I suppose from an osteopathic model, the traditional model is people come through the door, “I’ve got a sore back.” You treat them hands on. So hands on, it’s even important to know what hands on is. It’s either stretching, massage. You can do some joint manipulation if that’s the approach that you want to take. Look, being an osteopath for 18 years, the reason why I do what I do from a clinical Pilates perspective is because that outcome is a lot better than the short term hands on approach.

Dean Daskalou (12:40):

So I suppose I put into two categories, Michael, I put it into acute care. So if someone comes in with a crook neck, I’ll use neck as an example, can’t turn, can only get to a certain range of movement, they may not find a lot of benefit that day to do exercise. So I might do a hands on therapy session, maybe one. But after they feel like they’ve restored their movement, I get them exercising relatively quickly within their pain threshold obviously. But I tend to think that there is a place for the hands on therapy, but I look at it as more of an acute therapy. The problem where you can arise is where some people want you to treat them for chronic problems.

Dean Daskalou (13:24):

Let’s talk about someone who’s had that sore neck, but they’ve had that sore neck over a period of three to six months and it keeps coming back. You keep treating them, they feel better. Then they become reliant on you, and then you become the person that removes the pain as opposed to the other way around from a corrective approach, from a clinical exercise approach, they are in control of their health. The more exercise they do, the better they feel. And then all of a sudden, funnily enough, you don’t get them coming in for their neck or you don’t get them coming in for their lower back pain because it’s more controlled. Doesn’t mean that they don’t have the odd treatment if something becomes irritated for the short term, but we’re talking very short term. We’re not treating for months or weeks.

Michael Dermansky (14:08):

Yeah. I couldn’t agree more. I mean, what I find as well is that the two work better together. So you may need to do some hands on treatment. So you find the joints are stiff or whatever the problem is as well. And getting that joint moving means that you can do the strength work better, but I can’t hands on strength into a muscle. No, I can’t make you stronger by manipulation, mobilization, massage, stretching, whatever it is, I can’t make the joints more stable, I can’t give you more strength. You have to do the work and your body has to learn how to do that task. And so together, they’re just great.

Michael Dermansky (14:51):

There was a period of time. I was doing only all exercise. Like, “Oh, we’ll take this away,” but we weren’t getting the same outcomes. The joint stiffness around the hip is still there. The knee cap doesn’t glide as well. And adding that into treatment, knowing fully well that’s not the only part of it too together with strength, that’s when I really started seeing outcomes change, and people really having that life.

Michael Dermansky (15:15):

And as you said, the independence gained from saying, “Okay, well, my neck’s sore now. I’m I need you to fix me.” As opposed to “Okay, you can treat me every so often, but I’ve really got this under control because I’m strong enough to be able to take the load of the tasks I do from everyday life.” That’s a really big thing. I mean, in what you touched there, the fact that you get them doing exercises fairly soon after the injury, there’s a real mental health benefit for saying, “You know what, I’m okay. I may have had an injury, but I can actually still do something despite the fact that I’ve had an injury within the certain limitations.”

Michael Dermansky (16:04):

It’s a major, part of actual treatment is to making sure people feel comfortable knowing that I have an injury, but I can still do something. I have a degree of pain, but it’s safe to start doing something, and those boundaries are what become pushed more and more and more until that there’s no longer a limiting factor.

Dean Daskalou (16:24):

Look, I think to me, that is the reason why we do what we do because we are here for, I’m going to say something a little controversial, because you have therapists that, and I’ve prior to starting my period doing clinical exercise and clinical Pilates is I always thought that we could get those same outcomes. And then you start realizing from experience that you don’t get those outcomes and you don’t get what the patient is coming to you in the first place, to be pain free or to be able to manage their pain.

Dean Daskalou (17:01):

And then it becomes, “You have to see my therapist. He or she’s very good.” And in the end it’s like, well, why because they get you coming back or they’ve got a busy practice. I think in the end for me, the best approach that I have found, and I think we are actually industry leaders doing this because we are finding that a lot of other areas now, or a lot of other clinicians, whether they’re exercise physiologists, osteopaths, or physiotherapists, they are starting to look at the exercise model and we’ve been doing it for such a long time.

Michael Dermansky (17:39):

A while.

Dean Daskalou (17:40):

Yeah. And we know the outcomes and the outcomes are so good. Exactly what I’m wholeheartedly agreeing with you, but I have to really emphasize the point that we’ve been doing it for so long that it becomes commonplace for us, but we need to spread the word for other people to understand that as well, which is important.

Michael Dermansky (17:58):

Do you have a specific example of a client that you can think of that you can give a scenario to the people listening where you’ve seen this model of treatment exercise really change their lives?

Dean Daskalou (18:14):

Oh, look, every day we see them but look, giving one example, and this is a long time ago when I first started, probably about eight years ago. I remember I had a patient come through and she’d had back surgery before. And she was actually due to go in for surgery again. And she couldn’t even lie down on the reformer machine, the pressure was just too much and the pain. So we just started from scratch. And it was really amazing because I didn’t put any pressure on her and I just listened to her body and she listened to her body too. So I just basically made sure that she felt some discomfort because in order to improve, it’s not about being completely pain free, but I made sure she was in no pain.

Dean Daskalou (19:04):

And I remember slow and steady, we just got her to engage the correct muscles, we got her to feel that she could control the movement. All of a sudden, and it wasn’t something that happened straight away, but she said, “Dean, I slept last night.” I said, “Oh wow. Okay.” She goes, “Normally I have to take some pain medication.” And she said, “I just went to bed and fell asleep.” And it was simple as that where someone just says something that I take for granted, but she just went home, fell asleep and woke up in the morning with no pain medication. And we kept working on it and we were working on it for a good while, like three to four months where she got to the stage where she actually said, “Look, I’m in control of this. This discomfort’s not getting worse. This pain’s not getting worse.”

Dean Daskalou (19:58):

So she went and saw her surgeon and her surgeon said, “Whatever, you’re doing, continue to do it. Because at this stage, if you are controlling the pain.” The reason for the surgery was to help decompress, it was a Lumbar disc bulk. She had already had surgery on it before and it didn’t work out well and she was very scared. She was thinking, “Well, what if it doesn’t work? Am I going to have three or four surgeries?”

Dean Daskalou (20:21):

And I think that moment, look, when it happens and that’s something that happens very often, but that just made me realize that I personally had chosen the right path of helping people. And it really was important because in this case she avoided surgery, and by the end of it, she was actually in a small class size after that. Yeah. We could get her to the stage where she didn’t have to have the individual hand one on one approach, she got into a group session, which I thought was amazing. If you had asked me three to four months before that she would be in a group session, I would’ve honestly thought I was making it up.

Michael Dermansky (21:00):

Yes. Yes.

Dean Daskalou (21:01):

And look, I’m sure you’ve had instances like that, but from that perspective, when you can avoid surgery, I think that to me made me think great, I listened, we listened to her needs and it worked out quite well for her, the end result just by taking it from a control strength and stability method.

Michael Dermansky (21:24):

Right. I know we touched on this before, but I want to bring up the point here. Does someone need to finish treatment, hands on treatment and be completely pain free before they start doing clinical exercise or Pilates or strength training?

Dean Daskalou (21:38):

No. No, because essentially to be pain free, what if that never happens, Michael? What if it was like that patient that I just said to you before? She was not pain free. Yep. So if you’re waiting for the perfect time to be pain free or to be feeling better, we get some people coming through honestly, who are in pain and they say, “Look, I’m not sure if I should be here today.” Well, then I ask them questions, “What’s happening? How are you feeling? Where are you in pain?” And then we can actually modify, and that’s the beauty. It’s not about saying, “Well, okay, go into a class of 10 and good luck.” No, it doesn’t work like that. And it’s about listening and everybody’s got an individual program.

Dean Daskalou (22:19):

So therefore, anyone who comes through the door for me, if you’re in pain, we can manage it. If you’re in pain where you can’t get into your car or can’t walk, well, then we can adjust and look at it from maybe you do need rest because sometimes doing nothing, meaning rest, is still doing something. So you still need to rest the body. But from a pain perspective, I still will get people to come through because we can adjust, we can work with them and they still can go back and do what they’re doing, whether it’s desk work or whether they’re having to do the afternoon run, picking up kids. That’s what I have to do a lot of times. Yeah. And if I go somewhere, if I tell someone, “You’ll be fine after doing these exercises,” generally they do feel better afterwards.

Michael Dermansky (23:07):

Yeah. I mean, I’ve got two perspective on that too. Number one is that often when they’re in pain, you can exercise to make them less painful too. So you can use the exercise as a modality tool to actually reduce the person’s pain at the time. And it’s usually pretty easy to do that if you’ve got a very thorough assessment, you know exactly what to do.

Michael Dermansky (23:25):

The second thing about it too, is that it’s really important to understand that pain doesn’t always mean I’m doing more damage, and sometimes it does sometimes it’s your body signaling saying, “No, don’t do this.” And sometimes it’s a normal part of the condition that we just to realize it’s background noise, that we will see that modify over time, but it’s really important to know. And I mean, that’s where the experience comes into it too, that you that what’s normal pain and we are not worried about this and one’s about, yes, we’re worried about this, we need to back off. But very rarely, very, very rarely does people have really acute pain where you can’t exercise.

Dean Daskalou (24:06):

No, that’s right. I think you made a really good point, Michael there, because I think a lot of people, as you said, it is that background noise where you do have to listen and make a clinical judgment. And I honestly, I do think, sometimes I think my staff are better at picking it up than me because we do so much work behind the scenes to get everybody trained up so well. So for me yeah, I think our approach from a pain perspective, I think yeah, I think people come through and they do feel better. So yeah, I think from a background noise, I can’t agree with you more.

Michael Dermansky (24:46):

Yep. One last question, from your perspective, when does someone transition from doing clinical exercise and Pilates to performance and strength condition training? When is that line for you or is there a line?

Dean Daskalou (25:01):

Look, I think that line is not that … Look, it’s a really good question. I don’t think that line is as specific or as a real hard line that you cannot cross. I think the way I approach clinical exercise and strengthening conditioning is at the same time. So as they’re improving their control, as they’re improving their movement patterns, you need certain movement patterns in order to do a proper strengthened conditioning training, but essentially part of their, we call it rehabilitation or bringing them out of their pain or discomfort is to make sure that they can do a certain movement that you would do in strength and conditioning.

Dean Daskalou (25:44):

So Michael, if I can take someone through an exercise that I can see that in strength and conditioning approach, whether they’re doing squatting or lunging or on the machines that we’ve got here or even dead lifts as well, if they can do the movement, I start to introduce it slowly. So look, I think they can happen at the same time.

Michael Dermansky (26:07):

All right. I mean, again, I couldn’t agree with you more. It’s interesting because you can bring in those classics strength and conditioning fairly early, once they’ve got a reasonable control or even if they’ve got a reasonable control at the start, you can bring them in and even without weight, as you said, just getting used to the movement and then you can start adding weight into it too. But the basics of getting the brain used to those movements really early is important because one, you get used to the pattern too. You tell that the body and the brain saying, “You know what, it’s okay to do this. I’m okay doing this.” Nothing’s going to end by giving it a go.

Dean Daskalou (26:42):

There’s fear. There’s a of fear there. Yeah. And if we can remove some of that fear and show people that they can do the movement and it doesn’t have to be loaded with weight, if they can do it, then you add a little bit by little bit and you can see people’s confidence just skyrocket. It’s quite amazing.

Michael Dermansky (26:58):

Anything else you want to tell listeners before we finish up?

Dean Daskalou (27:00):

No. Look, it’s great to talk about it because I think the more people that know and look, it’s not about doing a program or at our program, it’s just understanding that health is not static. It’s always moving and you have to be in tune with what the new technology is, what the new studies are coming out as well. And I think from our perspective, we do so much work behind the scenes that I’d love to tell people how much training that we do. And I think the team that we’ve got, I wouldn’t replace them for the world. I think they’re amazing. So I just think where we are at the moment, I just feel like we’re right at the front of patient and people’s health.

Michael Dermansky (27:48):

Yeah. And it’s really great to see people change and get the confidence in saying, “I’m not scared of this. I can actually do it.”

Dean Daskalou (27:53):

Yeah. No, that’s amazing.

Michael Dermansky (27:55):

Well, thank you very much, Dean.

Dean Daskalou (27:56):

No, my pleasure.

Michael Dermansky (27:56):

Next week we are going to meet all our next shows. In a couple weeks, we’re going to be talking to the senior exercise physiology, branch manager, Nick Atkins. And he’s going to be talking about strength conditioning in more detail. So tune in then, and we’ll talk about strength conditioning. Thank you very much.

Dean Daskalou (28:12):

Thanks Michael.


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