Ep 22: Why recovery is just as important as exercise (the secret sauce for getting fit)

Voiceover (00:02):

Welcome to The Confident Body, where experienced health professionals discuss how to get the most out of your body for the lifestyle you choose. We believe everyone can exercise and get the most out of life, regardless of your injuries or health issues. Now, here’s your host, senior physiotherapist, Michael Dermansky.

Michael Dermansky (00:23):

Hi everyone and welcome to the show that helps you become more confident in your body so you can keep doing the things that you love. My name is Michael Dermansky, I’m the senior physiotherapist here at MD Health and I’ve got a special guest today, Hanah Mills from Ideal Nutrition. Welcome back to the show again.

Hanah Mills (00:38):

Thank you, Michael, thanks for having me again.

Michael Dermansky (00:40):

No worries. We’ve got a special topic today, why recovery is just as important as exercise, the secret sauce of getting fit. We’re going to talk about it from a nutrition perspective today, and you’ve got some special ideas about this topic as well, so I guess we’ll get straight into it too. What role do you see that nutrition plays in exercise recovery?

Hanah Mills (01:03):

Yeah, of course. Nutrition obviously plays a really big role in fueling our muscles, fueling ourselves and making sure everything is functioning properly. When we exercise, we more or less deplete that, right, because you are using all that energy to be able to fuel your exercise, and not just energy, also water and other micronutrients as well.

(01:26):

That means that we’ve essentially dried out the sponge and disenabling us from performing at our best when we’re working with a dry sponge, right. Nutrition plays a really important role in replenishing that sponge and bringing back its elasticity and hydrating it and making sure it’s fueled with energy so that you can then perform at your best.

(01:51):

The role that plays with the recovery is making sure all of our cells are replenished and at their optimal, so that then you can do your next session and perform your best then. It also helps prevent a lot of injuries and things like that as well.

Michael Dermansky (02:08):

Okay, well I want to go to through a couple of terms, because I only learned about some of these last year myself. What’s the difference between fueling and nutrition, because there’s quite a big difference too? You used the word fueling a couple of times as well, and not everyone may know what that means in the context of exercise.

Hanah Mills (02:24):

Yeah, a great question, that’s a beautiful question. The way I describe fueling is, it’s like the fuel for your car, right. There are different types of fuel that you can use for your car, but there are ones that are going to make your car perform at its best, right, so it’s more of that premium stuff, style of fuel.

(02:42):

That’s the same with nutrition. You could have everyday nutrition, and what I mean by that is eating everyday foods, okay, and not really overthinking it, but that’s not really fueling us so that we can perform at our optimal or at our best.

(02:58):

What I mean by fueling is, it means that you are doing everything that you can to give yourself that premium fuel, whether it be from an energy standpoint, whether it be from a carbohydrate protein or a hydration standpoint. Does that make sense? So that you’re optimizing your nutrition as opposed to just giving yourself everyday average nutritional requirements.

Michael Dermansky (03:21):

Yeah, and I guess from what I understand it is, it’s specifically for the exercise, so you’re not talking about what’s good healthy eating all the time. I’m going to do an exercise session, what do I have to do now to fuel my cells, my body as much as I can, so I get the best outcome for that particular session? Is that right, Hanah?

Hanah Mills (03:38):

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It’s very different and it’s quite interesting and sometimes contradictory, that our everyday nutrition is quite different to how we would perform or how we would fuel for our performance. A great example is, a lot of my clients, I’ll give them some lollies to train, and they’ll be like, “Oh my God, why is a dietician giving me lollies?”

(04:00):

It’s like, for your training, that is actually one of the best sources that you can have, or the best nutrition sources that you can have to be able to fuel your performance. Whereas every day, obviously we don’t really need things like lollies and there’s not a lot of micronutrients and fiber and things like that, so it’s not helping us every day, but it specifically will help them with that training performance, yeah.

Michael Dermansky (04:21):

Well, I guess we’ll talk about this as well, is what happens if you don’t optimize nutrition recovery? Actually, let’s go back a bit. We’ll get back to this topic in a second, but say if you don’t do that, you don’t optimally fuel before your session, you don’t, as you said, as a nutritionist, that you’re telling people to have lollies potentially, not for everyone, but some people before the exercise session. Why, what’s the big deal? What difference does it make if you don’t do that?

Hanah Mills (04:49):

A great question. Why do you have lollies and why do you have … Well, what we’ve seen in the research is having around 20 to 30 grams of easily digested carbs, so things like lollies or things like dried fruit or juice or honey on white bread, all of those are simple forms of carbohydrates. The reason they’re the best is because they provide our body with energy, so we’ve got different macronutrients that provide us with energy, but these are the most simple ones.

(05:22):

It means that they break down really quickly and they feed that energy into the bloodstream really quickly, allowing our muscles to reap the benefits from it. Now, you do store glycogen, we’ll just refer to it as sugar at the moment though, you do store that inside of your muscles and inside of your liver, but we’ve seen that that depletes very quickly.

(05:46):

Okay, so you use those stores quite quickly, and they’re more beneficial for the low intensity, sustainable or steady set training. Whereas for something that’s really intense and needs a lot of energy very quickly, so for example, a gym training session or going for a run or interval sessions and things like that, you’re going to use those carbohydrate stores really quickly, and so that’s why it’s beneficial to have some simple carbohydrates prior to training, so that you use that first and then you can use the store that you’ve got inside your muscles and your liver. That just means that you can perform at your best for longer as well.

Michael Dermansky (06:27):

Okay, so it’s interesting, you said two things there as well. Number one, the whole point of it is to make sure you have optimal performance during that session. Because if you’re weight training you’re trying to make yourself stronger, you want to be getting that working towards what your safe limit is, and if you’re depleting yourself of those simple carbohydrates during that session as well, it’s harder to push yourself to that level that’s going to have an effect and make you stronger, fitter, whatever you’re trying to work on as well.

(06:53):

Also we’re not talking about massive amounts, you said 20 grams of carbohydrates as well, so it’s a small amount to make sure you’re optimally fueled for that session. Not, “Oh wait, I’m weight training, I can eat anything I like anytime I like.” It’s not exactly the same thing.

Hanah Mills (07:10):

No, exactly, and we usually recommend having it around half an hour to an hour before your training session, because that’s when, yeah, it’ll break down and then it’ll be available in your bloodstream for your muscles to reap it, or reap the benefits rather.

(07:27):

In terms of the amount of carbohydrates, yes, that really does depend, so our standard protocol is for 20 to 30 grams of easily digestive carbs half an hour to an hour before your training session, but if you’re training for longer, so say you’re doing something like a half marathon run or a triathlon or a power lifter who’s at the gym for a couple of hours, you may want a little bit more than that.

(07:50):

It is a little bit more individual, but from a standard research perspective and a standard gym goer who’s training for 45 minutes to an hour, that seems to be a good amount. Yeah, absolutely.

Michael Dermansky (08:01):

Right, so what happens if you don’t optimize your nutrition recovery between sessions? What’s the big deal about that? What do you mean by that then?

Hanah Mills (08:11):

Back to my sponge analogy, you’re essentially trying to train with a dry sponge. Your muscles and your cells are quite depleted, so it means that they can’t perform at their best. You’ll probably feel quite lethargic quite quickly, and not able to push out the weights or the reps that you usually would.

(08:29):

It also can increase your risk of injury, because you can strain the muscles a little bit more, and it also can prevent you from going for as long as you would like to as well, so you can feel quite tired quite quickly.

(08:45):

I guess at the end of the day, no matter what you’re training for, whether it be a performance perspective or whether it be a body composition perspective or a rehab perspective, you know that you’re training to get the most out of your session, and so if you aren’t fueling those cells adequately, then you aren’t going to be able to get the most out of that. Yeah, you can still push yourself, obviously we’ve all done it before, but it just means you can’t perform optimally.

Michael Dermansky (09:15):

Yeah, and when we talk about carbohydrate, where does protein come into it too?

Hanah Mills (09:21):

Yeah, so protein plays more of a role and a long-term role for recovery. Carbohydrates are really beneficial for pre-training, but then when we talk about protein, that’s more of the recovery. I think I used this analogy with you the last time, but every time, imagine your fingers being intertwined and then tearing, they’re amino acids, so the building blocks of protein or the little proteins, that leak out of that muscle every time you do a rep. Every time you feel your muscles get sore, that is your muscles tearing.

(09:55):

Those proteins will leak out of that muscle, and if you don’t have enough protein coming in or enough protein coming in consistently, then that muscle isn’t going to be able to repair as strongly or as big as what you would’ve liked it to. You can imagine, even think about it as a rope, a rope that’s intertwined with lots of different layers and strings and things like that. Imagine pulling that apart and then not putting it back together.

(10:26):

Gradually over time it’s likely to tear or it’s not going to be as strong, so you’re not going to be able to do everything that you can or you want to be able to do with it. The protein plays a really important role in replenishing and supporting those muscle fibers to intertwine and grow stronger. Then if your goal is to build muscle, it also can help with building muscle as well.

Michael Dermansky (10:49):

All right, so when you are doing an exercise session you fuel to be able to work at your highest level, and then you need fuel and protein afterwards as well, to make sure that you maximize the repair process. Because when we’re training, we’re aiming to go that little bit more than your body’s comfortable doing, to give it a reason to repair and change. If we don’t have the fuel for it, it makes that process harder, is that what I’m hearing, Hanah?

Hanah Mills (11:12):

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We’re training, right, to get stronger. More or less, there’s a lot of other reasons around it, but your muscles aren’t going to be able to get as strong as you’d like them to, they can only get to a certain point, unless you’re fueling them adequately.

(11:27):

Yeah, if your goal is to get stronger during that training session, you need to replenish the muscles with the protein, with the blocks to support that strength, to be able to then grow that and make it stronger. Yeah, it will hinder your ability to achieve those goals.

Michael Dermansky (11:48):

Fantastic. What foods would you have, so what food do you recommend to have before or after your session for optimal recovery?

Hanah Mills (11:56):

Okay, this is a long conversation. It does depend on the individual, and I always say this, but it does depend on the individual, their sport, how big or small they are, their day-to-day exercise and things like that.

(12:12):

If we break it down from a general gym goer’s perspective, ideally, and even if you’re training at 4:00 AM in the morning, ideally we are never training fasting. Okay, so that’s my first disclaimer, you are going to deplete those stores from your muscles really quickly, those carbohydrates or those sugar stores from your muscles really quickly, and so that means that you’re not going to be able to get the most out of that session.

(12:37):

If we think about it, I’m going to give the example of a morning session, and I’ll give it an example of the afternoon session, because it differs a little bit. Say your training first thing in the morning, even if you literally roll out of bed and then go straight to the gym, it’s still important to have those pre-training carbs, so that’s when we’re looking at the 20 to 30 grams of easily digestive carbs, and those could be things like the lollies, or regular fruit juice, white bread, crumpets, honey and jam, okay.

(13:04):

Using that to make up the 20 to 30 grams, and then also if you want to consider something like caffeine to directly improve performance, we’re looking at three to six milligrams per kilo of body weight of caffeine. Ideally coming from something like low dose or pre-workout or an energy drink, because they’re easier to dose. Whereas coffee, you can’t really dose it because the caffeine quantity differs so much depending on the shot of coffee. That’s the first thing, and then also drinking to thirst.

(13:33):

There are some protocols around hydration and water requirements, but really they’re quite vague and it really depends on the sweat rate of the individual and things like that. I would just say, drink to thirst and make sure your urine is constantly a pale to a clear yellow.

(13:53):

I’ll probably talk about the importance of hydration a little bit more later, but if you think about it, your body is 70% water. If you haven’t given yourself enough fluids, enough water, then you are not going to perform at your best. There was even a study that was done that showed that if you lose greater than 2% of your body weight, so say you’re at 100 kilos and you get down to 98 kilos at the end of your training session, your performance will significantly drop.

(14:23):

Okay, so losing any greater than 2% of your body weight in hydration, your performance will significantly drop, so it’s really important that you keep on top of that.

Michael Dermansky (14:30):

Yeah, yeah.

Hanah Mills (14:32):

That’s pre training. During training, I don’t really stress about it too much, unless you’re a triathlete or an endurance athlete or anything like that. Then post-training, when we’re having a look at, so you’ve probably heard of the anabolic window, Michael?

Michael Dermansky (14:50):

Yeah.

Hanah Mills (14:50):

Yeah, so the anabolic window isn’t directly after training, a lot of gym goers will be like, “Oh, I’ve got to download protein shakes straight after training,” but it’s not as crucial that we get it within 30 seconds of our training session being complete.

(15:05):

The anabolic window is three to five hours around your training session, so that’s before, during and after. Ideally we’re getting around 20 to 40 grams, depending on your daily requirements, but around 20 to 40 grams of protein within two hours after training.

(15:24):

That’s what I would usually say, that’s a good amount, and you want it to be a high quality source of protein, so ones that, around three grams of leucine per meal.

Michael Dermansky (15:34):

Okay, so let’s go through the anabolic window as well, because I have heard of that, but what if people haven’t heard of an anabolic window? What does that mean?

Hanah Mills (15:42):

Yeah, of course. Anabolic essentially means building, okay, growth or building. Whereas catabolic is breaking down, okay. What happens, actually, if we put it in perspective, when you train your muscle metabolism?

Michael Dermansky (15:57):

The metabolism, you do break down part of the muscles, be in a catabolic state to some degree, yeah.

Hanah Mills (16:07):

Be in a catabolic state. Yeah, exactly, so they start to break down, right. You don’t want that to continue any further, okay, so after it’s broken down and it’s torn, this is the best time for your muscles to be able to have maximal capacity to actually grow and strengthen. The anabolic window is the prime time for your muscles to be able to grow and strengthen.

(16:32):

Now, once again, and this will probably be another conversation for another time, but in terms of protein requirements, and this is all we’re talking about right now in terms of the anabolic window, the most important factor at the end of the day is actually just getting your total protein intake in, okay, and then distributing it evenly across the day. The anabolic window is probably one of the least important factors, but it still plays a role if you’re trying to optimize everything, okay.

Michael Dermansky (16:59):

Right, okay, so yeah.

Hanah Mills (17:02):

If you miss the anabolic window, it’s not going to be the end of the world, you’re still going to build muscle, but it just would help if you’re trying to optimize everything, to get it within those couple of hours post training.

(17:15):

Yeah, the anabolic window is at three to five hours around your training session, before, during or after, so when you can maximize the most amount of muscle growth, and that is the window where you want to maximize the amount of protein intake or optimize the amount of protein intake that you’re having, and then also with carbohydrates as well, to help replenish those too.

Michael Dermansky (17:38):

All right, so I understand that it’s more important afterwards, to have your total protein requirements for the day, so whatever your requirements are, you’ve had them through the day. If you can hit it through the anabolic window, fantastic. It’s really good that you had those high quality proteins during that time as well, and carbohydrates, but if you don’t, the most important thing is that you have the total amount of protein that you require for your whole day, and that will still help you build muscle in the long-term.

Hanah Mills (18:02):

Absolutely, absolutely, we’ve seen time and time again that that’s the most important factor in the research. There’s no point in getting 40 grams of protein post training and then no other protein for the rest of the day.

(18:14):

It’s so important that you have that amount of protein at the end of the day or your protein requirements at the end of the day, but yeah, if you can get it in the anabolic window, then that’s a bonus, I guess you could say.

Michael Dermansky (18:26):

I guess, yeah, the thing I’ve read as well is that, in terms of making sure you do have that extra fuel and nutrition after recovery too, because that reduces that cortisol spike that happens afterwards too. The stress, your body’s natural stress response that doesn’t allow you to put on muscle, the catabolic steroid, so it does the opposite to what you want to do.

(18:48):

You reduce that big spike that actually happens afterwards too, if you have regular nutrition afterwards too, and that speeds your results. People who do eat, fast, do exercise fasting as well, they exacerbate that cortisol response afterwards too, and that goes against the results they want to achieve in the long-term.

Hanah Mills (19:06):

Yeah, of course.

Michael Dermansky (19:06):

How do you recommend structuring your meals through the day? We’ve got the fueling before, afterwards, what happens through the rest of the day?

Hanah Mills (19:16):

Sorry, can I just finish on the afterwards? I didn’t get to finish all that before.

Michael Dermansky (19:20):

Yeah.

Hanah Mills (19:20):

I might just go back to that and then we’ll go to the fueling capacity. A couple of other key points that I just want to highlight is obviously the replenishment of hydration or of water, so making sure you are topping up everything that you’ve lost, if not more, during that training session.

(19:37):

What we usually aim for is 1.5 times the amount of weight that you’ve lost during that training session. Obviously that’s hard to measure and unless you’re an elite athlete, I probably wouldn’t overthink it, I would just get some water in, drink to thirst, but that’s a good indicator.

(19:54):

This other thing, so we’ve spoken about protein, we’ve spoken about hydration, getting those carbohydrates in. Like I said at the start, you’ve taken out, you’ve used up all your sugar stores inside of your muscles and your liver for that training session, so now it’s really important that we replenish them. Sorry, I just need to drink some water, my apologies.

Michael Dermansky (20:15):

That’s okay.

Hanah Mills (20:25):

My sinuses are still playing up. Okay, so it’s really important that we now replenish those carbohydrate stores. If you’re only training once a day, it’s not as crucial that you quickly get in all those carbohydrate stores, because you’re going to be consuming carbohydrates throughout the day that will replenish for the next day, that’s fine.

(20:47):

If you’re training twice a day, it’s really important that you get those carbohydrates in straight after training. We’ve seen that 1.2 grams per kilo body weight of carbohydrate post-training, so within the first two hours post-training, is an adequate amount for your body to then replenish those carbohydrate stores, ready for your next training session.

(21:10):

Okay, so especially people, elite athletes, who are doing maybe a cardio session in the morning and then a resistance training session in the afternoon, it’s really important they hit those 1.2 grams per kilo of body weight of carbohydrates post training.

(21:28):

For example, a 65 kilo athlete could be looking at three pieces of white bread with three tablespoons of honey, that’s an adequate amount to replenish with. Even if, it’s absolutely fine if not better, to replenish with simple carbohydrates, because they will act the fastest, and then from there, swapping into more your complex carbohydrates for the rest of the day.

Michael Dermansky (21:49):

Right, okay, but that’s particularly if you’re exercising twice a day, so to make sure that you replenish enough for your second session. That’s not for everybody though.

Hanah Mills (22:02):

Yeah, yeah, exactly. If you’re just training once a day, I wouldn’t even overthink the post training, just get a nice balanced meal, just making sure you’re hitting the 20 to 40 grams of high protein or high quality protein post training.

Michael Dermansky (22:15):

Okay, fantastic, as well. The protein in that, so what do the meals look like, so roughly? I think we’ve talked about it before, but, so that’s just around the training time. What about the rest of the day, how do you want to structure your meals for the rest of the day as well, that’s not within that training window?

Hanah Mills (22:26):

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. If you’re training later in the day, I would recommend getting a decent meal in two to three hours before your training session. What I mean by a decent meal is something that’s probably a little bit lower in fat and fiber, because they take a long time to break down, so that may cause some GI upset during your training session. Having something like some white rice with some chicken breasts, and maybe a quarter of an avocado and some veggies, that could be a really decent meal to have two to three hours before your training session.

(23:05):

Other than that, if you’re just training once a day in your general gym there, I would just be looking at making sure you’re hitting your three to four meals per day, okay, or even six, if you have really high requirements. Spreading your meals, spreading your calories, spreading your macros and your micros, at three to four meals per day, we’ve seen that that’s really optimal, especially from a protein perspective, to help optimize muscle building and muscle strength, because distributing that protein evenly across the day will ensure that adequate amounts of amino acids are consistently coming in to fuel that muscle growth throughout the day.

(23:49):

Similar to that, the tearing of the muscle that I was talking about before, a lot of amino acids are constantly leaking during that repair process, and more than what’s coming in. That means you’re at risk of losing muscle or injury, so we want to distribute that protein evenly across the day so there’s adequate protein constantly coming in to fuel that muscle recovery.

(24:15):

Yeah, other than that, just making sure you’re having a decent source, a high quality source of essential fats in each meal as well. They are things like avocado or salmon or nuts and seeds, olive oil and things like that, because that will help decrease the inflammation and help the cell renewal, hormone transport and things like that as well inside of the body, so that will help with recovery as well.

(24:40):

Then, also the complex carbohydrates, so making sure, sorry, making sure you’re having a decent source of complex carbohydrates in each meal, and then some veggies in each meal as well.

Michael Dermansky (24:56):

Okay, so I get it right, you’ve got the high quality protein after you’re exercising as well, but now you also want to make sure you spread your protein through the day as well. High quality fats to help aid your recovery as well, and some carbohydrates and particularly complex carbohydrates and some vegetables in your regular meals as well. Be that three, four, five, six meals, depending on what your requirements are. Is that right, yeah?

Hanah Mills (25:26):

Absolutely, absolutely. I would sip on that water throughout the day as well, drink to thirst. That’s perfect, you nailed it.

Michael Dermansky (25:27):

Right, drink your water as well. Yeah, so water, I’ve had to become, I’ve changed my behavior over the last 12 months. It’s hasn’t been something I regularly did, but I have become much more regular in drinking water, and it does make a difference, it does make you less fatigued, yeah.

Hanah Mills (25:38):

A difference, yeah, to your energy levels, to concentration, to so many things. It means you get more steps in throughout the day as well, Michael, because you’re constantly going to the bathroom to pee.

Michael Dermansky (25:49):

Is there anything else you want to cover today, before we finish up today?

Hanah Mills (25:56):

I might just cover electrolytes quickly, because I think that’s something that’s very common, everyone thinks that they should be having a Powerade post training, and it’s honestly not as crucial as what many people think. If we think about it, electrolytes are things like your sodium, potassium. Oh my gosh, what am I saying? Sodium, potassium.

Michael Dermansky (26:20):

Sodium, potassium, yeah.

Hanah Mills (26:24):

Can we redo that part?

Michael Dermansky (26:26):

Yeah, that’s all right.

Hanah Mills (26:26):

Oh my gosh. What’s the main ones? Sodium, potassium, phosphate. There we go, right.

Michael Dermansky (26:33):

There we go, yeah.

Hanah Mills (26:34):

If we think about it, sodium, potassium, phosphate, all of those, magnesium, are our main electrolytes that our muscles need to be able to contract and relax throughout the day, right. Okay, we know that magnesium plays a big role in muscle relaxing, and if you’re deficient then your muscles will tend to cramp and things like that.

(26:56):

These guys are really important, but contrary to popular belief, we get a lot of them through our diet, okay. We get a lot of sodium through our salt, obviously potassium is in a lot of our fruits and veggies. All of those are all found in a lot of our standard everyday foods, so it means that we’re constantly topping up on those electrolytes.

(27:20):

If you are sweating profusely for a very long time, then you are going to lose a lot of those electrolytes. Then, if you are only topping up on water, so what I mean by sweating profusely, this could be a three to four hour session and could be underground mining. I’ve had a couple miners who struggle with this, and what you tend to see is, they experience a lot of muscle cramping and aching and things like that, because they’re replenishing with water, but they’re not topping up their electrolytes to meet the requirements that they’ve also exuded.

(27:53):

In those extreme examples, I would recommend some electrolytes. That is going to help top up, and a lot of your electrolytes also have some carbohydrates in them as well, so they’ll help top up those requirements as well. For the everyday gym goer, it is not necessary for us to be having things like Powerade and electrolytes, because we’re getting all of that through our diet each day, so you’re essentially just making expensive urine.

(28:25):

If your urine is a fluorescent yellow, after you have a Berroca or something like that, that means that your body didn’t need those extra nutrients, okay. Really, if you like the taste of electrolytes, it’s not going to do any damage because your kidneys are going to exude that, but if it’s something that you’re like, “Oh, do I need this or do I not?” I would say, “No, you don’t.” Because unless you are in one of those extreme examples where you’re sweating profusely for a very long time.

Michael Dermansky (28:55):

It sounds like, I think, I can’t remember, if it’s your exercising over an hour or over two hours, that’s when you need electrolyte drinks, but beyond that, water’s fine. Is that right?

Hanah Mills (29:04):

Yeah, yeah, exactly. It also does depend on their sweat rate as well. If they’re swimming for an hour or two, probably not as necessary. Okay, because their body’s constantly getting cooled down, but if you’re out cycling for a couple of hours, yes, that’s probably useful there.

Michael Dermansky (29:26):

All right, fantastic as well. Good, excellent. Yeah, they were told very well, that it may not be necessary for a lot of people, and often just unnecessary sugar for a lot of people too. It’s not a nutrition drink, it’s made for a particular purpose and it doesn’t fit a lot of people, it fits athletes, not a lot of your general gym goers, right.

Hanah Mills (29:45):

Absolutely, absolutely. Just top up on all your fruits and veggies and you’ll meet your requirements.

Michael Dermansky (29:50):

All right. Well thank you very much for joining us again, Hanah. That’s been great information about nutrition and where it fits in for around your gym exercise program as well, to really get the best out of recovery. Thanks very much for your time.

Hanah Mills (30:02):

No worries. Thank you, Michael.

Voiceover (30:06):

Thank you for listening to The Confident Body. For practical articles to help you build a confident body, go to mdhealth.com.au/articles.